Category: Geeks r Us
Hi to all. :)
Many of you know me for writing my reviews and being a technology nut alltogether (how untrue, I love to write, to swim, to play goalball, to research, to be romantic with my girlfriend, to watch movies, listen to songs, and be a normal 18 year old highschool student too you know!).
However I wish to share a story here with all of you. I could make it a "once upon a time" story, but that would make me sound too bloated in some ways.
I began my treck to Windows 7 last October (see my review on Windows 7 build 6801 which is buried deep within this board).
I am a customer of JAWS - my mom payed the $1313 4 years ago for the product. My serial number is 410659. (it doesn't matter, simply for reference, you'd need my auth code to use my license, ha!).
So, I tested and tested and tested. 6801 in itself was an unstable build in some aspects and I reinstalled at least twice.
A month past, it was time to move on to... Windows 7 build 6956.
By this time, my JAWS activations ran out. Woop, time to request for a new activation count. Ok, done. Next day, it was verified and I had 3 more. More windows 7 playtime.
7000 came out in December, and it again was a time for a new re-install.
And so it was. I had to reinstall 7000 twice, since the stupid JAWS mirror display drivers wouldn't install. Woopsies - only have 1 count left!
Request time again.
It took them a few days to respond to that one, but sure, I was granted 3 more counts.
So I swam in the sea as a fishie testing Windows 7. Fun times fun times. Oooh! Windows 7 build 7048 came out in January. yeehaw! Time to install 7048.
Oh, wait. a week later 7057 came along. Damn, I got 7048, now 7057? Curse them brats at Microsoft!
Oh, we're down to one count. Request time!
Not quite. Freedom Scientific clearly told me, "you have had too many requests in the last 90 days. Contact Tech support."
I contacted tech support, no response. I called, only to be told that "we think you might be sharing your license.". I then proceeded to send them an e-mail explaining clearly that I write revirews for Windows 7 and other products, and that as a technology guru I reformat at least once a month.
I know the Zone is dodgie when it comes to illegal things ; But this is part of the story. Yes, folks, I proceeded to use JAWS cracks afterward, and my trick of restarting jaws after the 40 minute demo expired and not hitting escape on the activation dialog - this meant restarting jaws every few minutes since It'd become laggy. I had no other choice - they wouldn't grant me my license!
I am a patient man. All of you who know me more personally know that. And patient I was: I went through Windows 7 builds 7068, 7077, 7100, and 7127 through using illegal JAWS releases. That's about 3 months time. No, 6, since 7127 came out in may. Ok ok, 5 or 4.
I asked for a new activation request again.
This time, they called my cell phone (during class, thank you!) and the guy - Bryan Carver his name I think? - told me that if I want, they could arrange me to get a free dongle since I test products. He said he'd talk to the sales manager about it.
To this day, no response. I e-mailed them just yesterday morning - still nothing, but am hoping that I can get something. Jaws 11 is out, and it's windows 7 support is better ; I just ordered a new laptop which will have to run jaws 64-bit.
I understand if some of you are loyal FS customers. I don't know why I feel ok with using cracked versions of JAWS, while doing the same with Window-eyes would make me feel quite guilty. (I have jaws 10 still and want my license now for jaws 11). Same for system access, or any other screen reader - I'd feel guilty for using an illegal distribution. But not for JAWS. Are my morals wrong?
FS has really gone downhill recently. I sometimes think that their staff cannot program effeciently. When it comes to competition, freedom scientific is like a shark who has lost most of it's teeth and cannot byte it's prey. (NO PUN INTENDED, HA!).
I don't know what happened. Perhaps it's that Wafra company which purchased the company. Perhaps it's the economy. But in all honesty they should just make JAWS free. I know this will lead to some of you telling me that some blind people need the money JAWS makes from revenues - and I totally get that. And I know that there are some inicent and kind people in the company, those who are perhaps in marketing or a field where product stability is not what they work on. These are the souls who would suffer the most from such a move - and from my probable chance of not paying the $250 SMA check when my letter comes. Jaws 11, quite frankly, is a disaster in many viewpoints. Sure it has better Windows 7 support, but I find that it's intercepting drivers are worsening ; that there are more crashes with it than ever.
Perhaps I'd switch to NVDA, if only it had video hooks. I need to use a virtual cursor of some kind to access screen areas I otherwise can't with MSAA or Iaccessible/windows 7 UI automation. System access does the job very well, but the lack of Eloquence for that screen reader is what stops me from switching ; and the lack of support from my mother to help me get the student account. So JAWS is, by far, my best bet. (There is Window-eyes, but paying $500 for another screen reader is truly out of the question for me - I have no income).
I am wondering, though, has any of you had any issues like this with FS? What do you think of this story? Please share all perspectives. I am here to listen.
With love and best regards-
Tomi
I can't say much about FS. Oter than their exhorbitent price tags, I know little about them as I am still using JAWS 7. That being said, are you aware that as long as you have the eliquence synthasizer installed (guess you'd need jaws too) you can have system access work in eliquence? You just need change the synth in the preferences menu.
I'm not loyal, and Jaws as you pointed out is a good product, but sometimes has issues. I am only a continued Jaws user due to it being a sound product. Now here is the thing. You know you must have your installs redone, and you also know that they do not know you are really actually testing windows 7, because you are not with any company and did not submit a letter to get the okay. You should have gotten a bondle to start with my friend. Smile. You enjoyed FS until they stopped you playing without telling them first you were going to test, so now you must be patient and make several calls and talk to several people to redo your licens. Your computer if you used the same one has the same locking code, so you should be able to prove reinstalls of windows. That is the issue I'd think. Try from that angle, get the bondle and be well. Smile.
that's perhaps the problem though...
I know that every time I re-install or reformat my computer, my locking code becomes something new. (I believe it's randomly generated).. I've never in my life had the same locking code after a re-install. Even on other machines re-installing something like Windows xp resulted in other locking codes. (by other machines I mean those which I had previous to this one as my primary laptop)
As for eloquence... JAWS doesn't use a sapi4 eloquence software, and that's why it wouldn't work in system access... To my knowledge, obtaining a sapi4-capable eloquence is illegal and requires licensing, hence NVDA not having it anymore - they used to in the early days of development. :)
YOu can now buy eloquence for I think $30 from serotek. Wow! Um, yea! guess that's okay.
I see FS going downhill. In my opinion, good development has stagnated. I don't really care for any JAWS release after 8.0. It is a personal preference, but it is coming from someone who always likes to try the newest products. JAWS releases after 8.0, at least in my experience, tend to be sluggish and buggy. Development of the PACD Mate has stagnated ... it could be fairly argued, with the exception of data preservation, that this development has taken a significant step backward in the Omni. Stability is low, reboots take an inordinate amount of time, and there are numerous other glitches that make the unit little more than a glorified BNS. So thanks for sharing your tale and letting me know I am not alone in my viewpoint.
See, I can see where Tomi is coming from. Like him, I love testing things out. I have now had to call FS twice in the past 3 weeks, to get my authorizations reset, becuase for whatever reason, my locking code continually changes. I also agree with the fact that fs has gone downhill, and I too, would switch to something like window eyes or NVDA, if not for the fact that I need a virtual cursor, and dektalk voices get. on. my. nerves. I have jaws 11.734, and whikle its ok, their need to be some definite changes. First, research it? really? What the hell is the point. Ever heard of...oh I don't know...google? Second, why are you upping version numbers for tiny little things? Next, your installer. 93 megs? come on, isn't that a bit much? Window eyes 7.11 is what. 30? Ok, I'm done now.
I got this e-mail from freedom scientific. Read below.
By the way, it's nice that you can get eloquence for $30 from serotek - that puts System access more in perspective for me. :)
From: Beth Serrano
Subject: Re: Jaws License issue
Hi Mr. Geczy,
I checked your license and you had 1 install available. I went ahead an
reset you to 3. You are ok to proceed with activation if you are running
in demo mode. Please remember when testing products that JAWS does not
support, you should use JAWS in the demo mode to avoid loss of keys.
Regards,
Beth Serrano
Freedom Scientific
--
Fine, FS, if that's how you want me to go, than I'll do. While I respect the staff and honestly would rather not see employees lose prophit (perhaps from the irresponsible behavior of a few in the company), I will be forced to use pirated JAWS copies when testing upcoming technologies - be it Windows 8, or Microsoft Singularity. Oh, now I have 3 activations, but they won't last forever - my new laptop is coming in 2 weeks, and I usually re-format my laptop every so often - and let's not discuss the mirror display driver reinstall issue with JAWS, where after a few restarts JAWS will tell you that the mirror display driver is not installed and deleting the driver/unstalling intercepting/reinstalling won't solve the problem: It'll work for one restart, but after that, the issue returns.
Amen Music Master. This 11.7 is not a final release. The move from beta to final was premature at best, considering this product still doesn't even recognize home, page up, and page down on iTunes 9 ... at least on my system. The installation process is unwieldy, Research It is not a needed feature and is a foolish idea for a screen reader, and the operability of the program is becoming more complicated instead of simpler with time.
Tomi you got what you deserve. Microsoft released two builds of windows 7, beta and rc. You used four builds, so at least two must have been obtained illegally. Why should Freedom Scientific help you test illegal software. If you knew you were going to be doing a lot of reinstalls you should have contacted freedom scientific ahead of time. When I was using multiple computers at work that I knew would be frequently reformatted I called FS and got a free dongle that worked like a charm.
Jaws is going down hill, enough said. Honestly, I think jaws 7.1 was the moste stable, quickest, easiest to use and all that. jaws 8 wasn't bad either but there were some odd issues. Not as many as 9 or 10 or 11.
Window eyes is growing more stable and usable. The sccrypting system is becoming mmore and more applicable. People could honestly script WE to doo all the things (which are few) that jaws can doo better. E.G it had better windows live support with the alt plus 1 2 3 and so on to read messages among several nifty other keystrokes. Window eyes also has a built in version of eloquence so it is usable.
the omni and pocket jaws is rubbish, I disliked all the issues the origional product had but honestly with the omni, People gain little in the feature set and lose comparitively much much more stability.
Same could be said for braille note updates. both FS and humanware seem to Not think things threw when makeing a product as well as they should or could. Both need to learn how to use memory optomization in code, make the feature to cost ratio more appealing and actually put effort into building a product and its updates that are wanted and needed additions to it and the market rather than makeing a few baby steps forward in advancement per year and a half or more and chargeing increasingly higher cost per les feature benifit. This is like every other concept in marketing and product dev, it isn't all about the small features or even features that matter, its about the benifit a product provides for the consumer. Good products survive because they go out of there way to meet the needes of the customer.
then you have products like jaws and the braille note that seem to monopolise great chunks of the market, hinder there compotition, (with pointless lawsuits, we've seen both corperations doo this) because they are to! fucking! lazy! to work for the customer. they'd rather grab as big of a market block as they can and try to hold on as tightly as possible rather than makeing a huge effort at development, updates, quality manuals and customer support... Even the fealing and way the corperations workers output to the consumer can really drive them away. In short, these corperations have hit a huge period of declineing quality over all. They feel secure in there place. Moste school districts teach jaws in america, Then the cliant goes out and buys jaws there hole life unless they have either been exposed to more or have an outgoing personality. Doesn't help that blind people arn't usually taught to be as independant as possible so they tend to get dependant on something even when its shit because that's all they know.
There is so much fear in so many blind peoples lives that they are too scaired to take the steps to explore there world around them. Its something that plagues our comunity on levels far beyond choosing or takeing a look at a new product. It extends to peoplesheltering them selves, takeing the same roots places even though they know something they want is on another root home they could use. Eventually when things get shitty enough they stand but I wonder, Why must it go to this point... before change finally happens, to little, to late.We as these potential consumers are partially the problem as well, If we show them we won't buy in to the shit, they! Will! have! to! change!
if they wish to keep there cliants.
Here we come back to the dependancy issues so many people have.This is why they don't switch note takers, cane brands, there menues and food choices up, and several other things in the world. Because these people have them complacently dependant on there sorry slow asses which don't care about inovation, acheevement for the good of the comunity or even quality any more. Unless They get some kind of glory or raise out of it.
This is why I wish blind people as a hole would be more vocal about there dislikes in a product, Its such a small market that here we really could make change if we were unified,here too, there arn't as many options for the prospective consumer.
Its a vicious cycle but one that is changeable.
Hmm.
First I wish to state that the testing I do I do mainly for the purpose of hopefully helping the blind, and sighted communities alike, in transitioning to a new product or operating system.
For example, there are chances that Windows might not exist in the future - Microsoft is working on several private projects such as singularity and Midori which could potentially replace Windows. That's a topic for another post - however it is possible.
Seeing others, like Music master91, do testing, also makes me very happy, since it shows that (hitting on Striker's post above) the blind are going out on a limb to test a product which might intimidate them and put them out of their comfort zone. Do you think adjusting to a buggy build of Windows Vista was comforting? nope.
So, more and more blind people are going out in their way to test, weather it's illegal or not - a great sign. I will however ask FS for a free dongle and I replied to Beth Serrano with just that information, thanks for confirming the availibility of such an avenue.
To striker's post, I couldn't agree 100000000% with your post. Without delving too much in the phillosophies of various blindness organizations, my personaly philosophy reflects one which has merged the ones given by the ACB and NFB. I think the two organizations should really unite their ideas, but of course people are stubbern and competitive in their nature - which makes the blind market very... much... one in duality. You have one side on the NFB's "you can never ask for help, just find it yourself" and the ACB's "we need help!" - while a few remain in the middle or not involved at all. Parents of blind children or adults either sheltered them too much (either because of their overwhelming fear of "what would happen to him alone! Darwinism won't let them survive!" (one which mom tells me constantly by the way) or because of the sadness that lays in their hearts from the thought that "my child is blind..."). Of course this we can apply to any other disabled category.
Now on with FS and humanware. Humanware is just as bad as FS, though I give to them the credit that braille-notes don't freeze often (if at all) - though one issue with them is that keysoft doesn't unload or clear it's memory, which can sometimes lead to "out of memory" or "fatal application error" dialogs. Both suck.
The pacmate omni is a waste of money - The CPU, Ram, Rom, everything is IDENTICAL to that found in the original bx models. When humanware provided the mPower update, you actually had major hardware changes - expanded rom, a bunch of new ports, etc. FS could clearly have taken the advantage of adding perhaps a modem, or builtin Wi-fi, or whatever - to their products which they didn't.
Window-eyes is in deed getting better every day. Every hour. That's because GW Micro is more open to community feedback, just as Serotek is. (Serotek's competition lies more with NVDA, Dolphin, and Gw Micro since these employ more community-feedback-driven strategies).
Of course I'm not speaking for everyone on the Zone - or even the blind community - but these are just my opinions. I grew up in Hungary. There, I used Window-eyes 2.1. I moved to the States in 2003. There I was forced to use jaws 4.5, because most schools at the time had JAWS and invested thousands of dollars by giving up precious budget to buying licenses. FS was blooming in 2004. The problem with investing in any company is that you don't know when it will reach it's downhill point. A company must strive to keep it's business model up. Personally (again), I think that the more community openness and feedback a company allows, the longer it can stay afloat - for the time the company is open to such feedback and cooperates on a more informal level with the community by providing forums and interactive systems. Look at NVDA, in a year, they are starting to hit System access and have put a few bullets in JAWS's jaw.
Tomi,
What gives you the right to play around with Freedom scientific's products? You wouldn't like it if the tables were turned would you?
Why blame Freedom scientific because they won't bend to your whims.
I don't blame the company for not getting back to you.
For your sake, I hope that you won't get caught doing ill legal things with other people's products.
The only thing I can say is, I am on Freedom Scientific's side all the way.
As far as the Pac Mate goes, I am sure enjoying mine.
Your story sucks.
Okay I honestly respect the opinions of you all that are saying Freedom scientific needs change, and I was writing late, so spelled (dongle) badly. Here is the thing however. I and other (blind) friends of mine test new products as well, and I believe the correct and best way to do testing is 1. Contact the company who has the product you wish to use for testing. 2. After you have contacted them and learned their procedures for testing, than you will not run in to issues with license software. A dongle would and does save you from using up your installs, and I have learned that the locking code does change, but have not worried about it over much due to doing testing in a correct fashion. Next if you insist on loading what I call rogue software, cracks, illegal copies, and such of others work you can not complain when you have issues with your equipment. I suspect this is the reason for your reformating every few months, due to your use of poor quality, or rogue products that cause you to have issues with your computer. Freedom Scientific has work hard and long and still does to produce a quality product,. This product helps the blind to work and play in a sighted world, no not perfectly, but decently. When you say a add on such as research it is not worth anything think about its use in a job situation where information withen the company needs access to. You'll not be Googling this information, because you may not even have an outside connection to the internet, and the information is only good inside the company you work for, such as a policy. You say you got in trouble only because of testing Windows 7 builds, but I suspect you also test other rogue products as well. Even Microsoft suggested you use a "test" computer and not install any Beta on your working machine. Smile. Even Microsoft would only allow you to play so long before an atempt to stop you from using their hard earned work is made. If you expect FS to allow you free run with its product, than you also should expect Microsoft to give you free programs, Dell to send you it's latest and greatest system, HP, and any other company you feel like testing to see how you like it. I've read many bitches about pricing of Jaws, but nnot one person thinks about all the development hours, utilities, buildings, and other cost that have to be paid by FS to produce this shitty product you are bitching about, but still using, and even hunting for cracks. Smile. You live in America now, so if you do not like a product produce you own. Go to school to learn your craft, and produce a better product than shitty Jaws that's going downhill as I type. It is good to have an opinion about products, this is how things get better, but you cannot expect a company to allow you to do as you please with a product they have paid to produce. If you start at the ass end of a project, testing and such you will step in shit and have problems. Get yourself a Dongle, a test machine, and learn to conduct your testing in a proper fashion and you will be successful.
Last your problem is not a blind issue. Many blind people have reasons for not trying new things. Think about how this sounds. If a woman were to start testing different methods of makeup should she insist you do to, because blind people need to move forward so that makeup companies will make better products for blind women to wear? Smile. Does every blind person have to be interested in new tech to be a worth while blind person? I think not.
Peace.
why must one bother deal with FS anyway, when there's more products out there that offer a better price and better solution of what jaws seems to care to do is keep updating one after another, instead of make it better but make it worse.
window eyes and SA to go definitely the way to go for future developement, unless FS change its behavior of playing alegan on the market.
how often you see a new update from window eyes, not at all, perhaps,5 or less major updates in the last decade or so? compare to jaws, jaws, where early this decade was still running 3.7, or 4, then, 4.1, 4.5, 5, 5.5, 6, 6.2, 6.5, 7. 7.1, 7.5, 8., 8.1, 9, 10, and now 11, in the gap of less than 10 years time? don't forget of other small tiny update from version to version... jees, if such behavior is not consider sucking the consumer money, then, give me a better description for it.
The better description for it is why FS remains the leading screen reader. Do you think states, colleges, corperations, governments, would continue to update and give FS the update price if it wasn't worth it? I also forgot to say that in America a blind person that attends college receives all this tech free, that's free, of charge. Computers, Victor readers, laptops, desktops, Path mates, and you name it, if they go to school. These products are not purchased just because a company is pushing them, they are tested. FS updates, because software, and computing updates, and any one person never uses half of the products capabilities, so these updates are worth something. Smile.
Peace.
well first off I did (or rather mom) paid the $1313 for jaws - when 7.0 came out -and $250 when 9.0 came out to go up to 11. Will I pay the 11 to 13 SMA? no.
I'm officially burning the SMA letter I get from FS when it arrives - and laugh while I do it. Seriously. For that money I can buy some other piece of equipment worth my time.
Freedom Scientific only sues companies. Last year it was the whole issue with place markers and Window-eyes. Now it's the whole "you must have signed braille drivers" (on 64-bit windows).
They know what they are doing - 64 bit is going to take over soon, and Microsoft is not planning on releasing a 32-bit version of Windows in 2012. Nope. 32 bit is old shit now.
While I actually see research it asa good thing (heck, you could google but why do so if you can just hit 3 keystrokes and get the news right away? It's similar to what the sighted can do), that's about all that Jaws 11 contains. Major.
Previously, Jaws had minor updates - like 6.0 to 6.1 to 6.2. With these updates, no SMA counts were used. Ever since the release of jaws 8, there were no minor updates. No 8.1 or 9.2 or 10.1. For a reason, I bet. Do you think I'd pay that $250 to have the CEO of FS buy a new couch for his family, when I could use that money too? nope.
My school will not let me use their JAWS - so I am using my own legal copy. As for Microsoft and free Windows, it's already there :) I think soon Windows will become open source. We're heading down that road, you know. Microsoft is weakening it's anti-piracy mechanisms. I can see Windows becoming open source in a few years time.
Next if you insist on loading what I call rogue software, cracks, illegal
copies, and such of others work you can not complain when you have issues with your equipment. I suspect this is the reason for your reformating every
few months, due to your use of poor quality, or rogue products that cause you to have issues with your computer.
Forereel, do you not read posts? Tomi said exactly why he had to reformat his laptop every few months. If you want to know why, I suggest you go back and read as I am not going to tell you. I will tell you its right in the first post.
When you
say a add on such as research it is not worth anything think about its use in a job situation where information withen the company needs access to. You'll
not be Googling this information, because you may not even have an outside connection to the internet, and the information is only good inside the company
Um, did you even read what research it does? It connects you to wikkipedia, so yes you have to have an internet connection to even use it.
The better description for it is why FS remains the leading screen reader. Do you think states, colleges, corperations, governments, would continue to update
and give FS the update price if it wasn't worth it? I also forgot to say that in America a blind person that attends college receives all this tech free,
that's free, of charge. Computers, Victor readers, laptops, desktops, Path mates, and you name it, if they go to school. These products are not purchased
just because a company is pushing them, they are tested. FS updates, because software, and computing updates, and any one person never uses half of the
products capabilities, so these updates are worth something. Smile.
First, what is a path mate? Last I looked, it was called a packmate, (that's C. K. not T. H.). Second, do you think all this stuff comes on time? no it does not. I am still waiting on my laptop, and my own copy of KW. Ok, I am done with this part of my post.
Now, heres a question I have. Why, FS, did you put out an update to jaws 11, fixing a security issue, that you also put out for jaws 10? Isn't that kind of dumb? You just updated your product, now your putting out updates to your old products that fix problems in your new version, that you also put out in your new version? So basically, jaws 10 and 11 are exactly the same now, except for the crap that jaws 11 has in it?
Get a Mac. They're not perfect, but I don't have the nightmares the rest of you have anymore.
Just to clarify on research it, it can be configured with proprietary dll's to utalize entranet information or internal data over networks rather than using the internet.
Okay, let me say here that lots of this stuff you guys are doing is way beyong me. I don't reformat my computer cause I don't want to lose anything even though I have my files saved on disks and I don't want to mess up my operating system or the jaws version I have. I don't test products that are only like alpha's, at least not major operating systems cause there could be potentially lots of bugs. This is why I feel anyone using illegal software probably needs to reboot cause of hidden bugs and program errors. If it's illegal, it probably wasn't copied right and you use it at your own risk and the risk of your system.
As for FS and jaws, it was prety much my only option when I was searching for screen readers years ago. We were never taught to use jaws in school and yes, I did go to public school cause at the time only Apple computers were available with text-talker or whatever the program was then. I had to buy my own version, install it, and learn it on my own. Damn! This stuff is expensive. I know why they upgrade all software cause when new computer operating systems come out, things change and the speech software community needs to keep up with it.
I haven't had any problems running my jaws version and I currently use 9.0 with windows XP. I know someone who tests products for MS, sighted, and he even recommended for both the sighted and blind communities not to upgrade to vista. I was and probably still looking into upgrading to windows 7 and yes, I do need, at least this is what I've been told by lots of people and FS, that I will need a newer version of jaws. Since I'm at 9 I'll have to pay to go to 11. Shit!
Damn! why can't the companies just let you upgrade to the next level like go to 10 instead of jumping all the way to 11? This is something I've emailed fs about many, many times. Well, that and their prices! Companies make lots of stuff for the blind, but who can actually afford to pay it and I don't care if you're blind or sighted, the prices are staggering! I've also emailed them on why can they do a payment plan on products so that people can at least afford to get something. And, as post one stated in his request, not a response!
As for as changing brands and things. I have been experimenting with the NVDA software and win-eyes to see if I can just switch to one of those. I'm going to have to find that eloquence $30 thing though. That would be nice to have. That's about what I paid for full version of win-zip software license.
I have found that a lot of companies in the U.K. seem to put more effort and time into their products than the U.S. and the prices are cheaper. You can do the money conversion through one of the conversion programs to find out the U.S. dollars, but almost always cheapter in the U.K.
I'm getting the feeling that jaws 11 isn't stable? Damn! Sometimes places put out products way to fast without testing everything, and FS does a version upgrade every year.
Well, that's about it. I don't know what else to say here as I haven't had to contact FS hardly at all for problem issues, but then I'm not in computer testing, just web developement and html code stuff. For those running rogue programs, if you're computer crashes or if the company won't give you another license thing, then there's no one to blame but yourself. If you're going to go into product testing, contact the company first and work out a deal and then things like this won't happen.
Well, coincidentally, I contacted FS today with a tech support issue. Their response: here is our dealer locator, contact your local dealer to have the issue solved. tFS tech support has often been poor, but at least they used to try.
The only people who need to reformat their computer that regularly are geeks who mess about with files that were not put there to be messed about with. The average computer user isn't going to reformat his computer that often.
In response to Season's point - it is necessary for Jaws to update more frequently now, because technology is changing at a faster pace.
For the average computer user, there are benefits with every upgrade. For example in Jaws 10, there's the autoforms mode. Jaws 9 works better with some websites than Jaws 8. Before Jaws 7, Jaws didn't work with Firefox.
The price of Jaws would have to come down if somebody created a screenreader that was just as good for Jaws users as Jaws is, but was cheaper, because people would go for the cheaper option. I hope one day, somebody will create real competition for Jaws because that will benefit all screenreader users due to prices being lower, and the products being better.
well, FS wrote me back and they are going to send me a dongle, so I guess that's all set.
First off, the copies which are posted of Windows 7 (if obtained illegally) are often times direct images from Microsoft's own servers. Did you know that technet/MSDN subscribers get a lot of the pre-release software directly from Microsoft? A technet subscriber can upload that same .iso image they got from microsoft servers and voyla, it's a microsoft copy of a pre-release Windows 7 copy. There are ways to verify that images have not been tampored with - including md5 hashes - something everyone should really do anyway to verify the legitimacy of any download - be it legal or not. So most (70%) of the Windows 7 builds I used for testing were, in deed, Microsoft-released .iso files I could burn to DVD. I won't go into how or where you could obtain such files as it's outside of Zone policies, So I close it right here - but according to hashes the copies of Windows 7 I used had genuine Microsoft signatures.
The reason I reinstall my laptop (and I just saw the message of "you have 3 days to activate Windows" which indicates that I've had my laptop with this Windows installation for 27 days) is either due to me screwing my partitions up by installing lepoard on the system (that's why I reinstalled it the last time), jaws video intercept issues, or simply put, to test other Windows 7 editions and see how they compare to each other.
FS should implement a lone program :) that'd be a nice idea. GW Micro and Serotek both do it now - so FS is the only one "out of the game".
And for once, FS tech support was good - since they are supposed to send me a dongle of JAWS in the mail soon. I just hope they keep their word...
Yeah, and another thing about FS is that they don't make direct patches to their software like GW micro does, they just release another whole other version that is still the same size, and they're jumbling code on top of code. I agree with Tommi and Music Master and Striker that Window Eyes is indeed better. I mean, the response time, scripting, startup time is freakin' awesome! And I don't blame the people who don't pay for the SMA's, that's expensive on Freedom Scientifics part as well. And if they don't want to get the software hacked, make better anti-piracy mechinisms. -Software piracy is never going to stop, its going to rise in the next years. Infact, the biggest place it has risin up in is China.... OK, enough of my rambling And to all you geeks, keep exploring what's new out there! I do it too, and you'll learn a lot.
I'll say this much, I remember when FS used to have the floppy disk auth scheme, the Jaws installer was way more moduler. I'll explain, you used to be able to not have all the scripts and features loaded if you didn't need them. I also remember when they offered both the floppy disk and Internet as auth options. They should go back to the load only what the user wants, not the whole damn thing. Also, they should sell the program not only with the Internet as an auth option, but include the dongle, and make the program way the hell smaller, or make a light version. They should also redo their installer to autodetect and install either the 32 or 64 bit version by default, does GWMicro do this? And yes, the installer for Window Eyes is 30 mb in size, give or take.
The whole deal here is that FS naturally gets suspicious. They may have no clue about program development, but they are not stupid. Generally, some idiot blindy will share his key with some others, and they'll all just have fun reinstalling and whatever. It used to be you could get resets whenever you wanted. However they wised up to that, so now you're stuck with a few, and you have to wait ages after they start questioning you.
If you're doing testing, and obviously you knew you were going to be testing, you should've called FS ahead of time. That's your responsibility not theirs.
Yes their product sucks, but you can't blame your stupidity on them.
I'm farely surtain GW's installer picks which version of the software to install for eithre the 32 or 64 bit windows.
For real, I believe you missed the concepts andpoint of statements I made which you were argueing against. So, I'll break it down alittle more clearly.
My point about blind users being verry unwilling to change products at an early age bares great wate because of the following.
School systems and learning institutions in the United States tipicly only offer the student and teach Jaws.Combine this with the fact that moste educators of the blind tend to shelter there puples, not informing them that there are other options, not giveing them the confidence to investigate for other options Not Just In technology choice But In Life! Many programs don't intigrate the fundimental concepts of being independant and self advication to the point that because the school for what ever reasons it might have (contracts of exclusive use on the campus or in district, professionals unwilling to learn about other options or not knowing there are other options, and so on) Fact is, Freedomscientific Will give discounts on there screen reders and magnification tools if they are used exclusively which also applies to SMA's. Fact, FS has a much more aggressive stance on aquireing big agencies like schools, federal programs, training centers, that don't always have the money to branch out because of finantial reasons. This how ever means that the compotition needes to push back, GW is starting that. Fact, window eyes is cheeper than jaws. Even than thebasic version of jaws. But, FS has a pritty good lock on the market in the areas that count and they are doing everything to keep compotition out and the people that work in places where only FS is used usually don't know any better.
Keep in mind as well that the blindness market is small and there arn't as many proffitableoptions to market the product. FS keepes the buyers they have not because of the product at this point but because its been the locked in product for so many years that teachers, administrators, and other people that could play any part in choosing a product just go with what they know.
The blind consumers that graduate theseplaces go with what they know. many don't know there are other options until they talk to those that doo. Its not like we have jaws and window eyes comurcials and such, no bilboards, not much huge advertizeing. This is why FS, though they now put out a crappy product will continue to have a leading US market shair. Buyers will more often than not go with what they know the best.
This means the consumer should do more research as well as the people that train students on products. I'm not saying the consumer is powerless here but that FS really has a good mind game going. Briliant celling stratigy for a declineing product. It will keep it above water longer than it should.
then we get back to that point where people update jaws because that's all they know or have tried and the vicious cycle continues.
this is what i was trying to say so, I ask what do your examples bring in to the debate, what work do they doo for you and what can you justify and build off them that is related to the topic. I don't see anything but I might be wrong.
Bottem line, Consumers need to be informed.
Side note, Now there are many scripts that actually make Window eyes work more or less jaws like. You can get jaws style keyboard commands and layouts, jaws speech, set it up to be a faster more amazing clone of jaws but people are just not willing to take the next steps and try.
PS, Sorry about the typo's I wrote this quickly. But I think it gets my point across.
FS have bad repetition on their customer service world wide anyway, from their customer support, to their dealers, the reason why organisations will go with FS is because they win on their marketing strategy. and to be honest, not many organisations will spend heeps of time doing research on what product value them the most. just common sense, have been using FS for long time, why not keep using them, not till if one day, someone told them that hey, there's better product available out there.
and for all these organisations, colleges, or whatever organisation that blind people got their free product from, how many time they need to deal with the customer support? perhaps none, because, it will up to the user itself, to deal with the crappy service, what their duty is just pay the money and thats all about it.
perhaps thats the reason why FS can be as what it is, bullying other company for no particular reason.
unfortunately, there's not many blindy in the world will have the advantage like you does in America, or in UK, in other country, we need to research like hell to compare for the best value that we can get in terms of a screen reader, cause our government won't pay a cen to support us to buy any software for our usage.
if they do, perhaps, everyone will have the same attitude, and other company such as GW micro, and Saratec, even Humanware can close down for good, cause we'll be darn comfortable with what we have, and we no need to pay for it. then, it won't have any complain, cause there's no compertition out there. good, won't it? then, they can charge for whatever price they desire, 1000? 5000? 10000? wahahaha.
and agree on Mac, if you have the finance to pay for more outfront, it will pretty much give you a life of at least 7 years or more for a mac machine.
several comments on all of the posts...
Yes, I do admit - it would have been my responsibility to contact them prior ahead of testing 7. Point taken :) and I am glad they are sending me a dongle now, though that sales rep on the phone who bugged me about it (and told me, "we'll send you a freee dongle" should have done so right the day he said it. But he didn't. This is why if I don't get that dongle in a weeks time, I am contacting them again - at least to verify that they shipped it or what the hell they are doing in regards to getting it to me.
Second:
The jawsCD does detect if a user is running 32 or 64 bit windows. The install doesn't - it isn't integrated of course - but the install (actually DVD) a licensed user gets does. Yes, JAWS 11 comes on a dvd now, because they want to include the training materials and magic 11 on the disk. Kind of pointless - but then again, JAWS is 3-times the size of the Window-eyes installer.
Thirdly. I am from Hungary - and in hungary, the only official screen reader is, JAWS. That sucks, because not only is the price higher (about $1500 for the pro release), but they only have jaws 9! (maybe that's good though since jaws 10 and 11 are worse and worse). Most of the Hungarians in the nation receive their JAWS licenses through government or organizational grants - and demand for these is great.
That's why I translated NVDA into Hungarian 2 years ago - and now Robjoy and a few others from the Hungarian blind community have taken over in helping me with the gramatical aspect of translating. Lack of a proper and clear sounding speech synthesizer is another issue there - so I think that'll be our next step.
Of course, there are nations where JAWS is widely available, such as France and Spain - generally eloquence is also usable on these releases. In nations like Croatia and Romania, JAWS does not exist.
So again, most users get JAWS through government or state funds. When it comes to upgrading, however, the state rehabilitation agencies often won't pay out the SMA, leaving the customer in the dust. Of course, some states and governments have better service than others - so this varies across the board. In countries like Sweeden, the visually impaired get great benefits - while in Hungary they don't.
So this is a matter of reasoning: Who gets more hurt? The consumers which run the product or the governments and organizations which invest money in setting up grants/funding to purchase JAWS?
Ah! My late night postings. A few points. I stand on my opinion that a blind person does not have to be interested in tech products, the ones that may or may not work best, or anything else technical to be a valuable blind person. You are saying that because they are sheltered they don’t know better, and should as far as I read your posting. For thoughs of us what care about such things this is good, but putting the blind issue in to a debate like this one is not exactly fair. I don’t know the names exactly of the Pac mate, Victor reader, and other devices, because I don’t use these, so have a general on them, but you understood. Smile. I don’t say that FS makes a perfect product, and I know that everyone that has dealings with them will not have a positive experience. What I am saying, and am happy to see my point got over is that there is a proper way to go about doing things, especially when you are using a licensed product. The company is not against you directly only trying to protect its interest and keep as much piracy down as possible, and I think if FS was your baby you’d feel like wise. The world of computing is ever changing, and these small upgrades are making a different, such as that silly research it. My point was pointed out it does not need an internet connection to work, and has wide ranging application value. That small add on could mean the different of a blind person being able to do a job and that to me is progress. There are many other features in Jaws 11 that are small, but in the work environment, or college setting could make a blind person that much more independent. The user of Jaws does not even tap half the possibilities it is capable of in a day to day use, so every small thing counts. FS is not against the blind community and only there for the money it can reap. If this were so they could simply charge a yearly user fee similar to Virus program providers and release upgrade when they felt like it. Take a lesson from Microsoft’s upset with Vista. Some users hated it, and others loved it, and it just isn’t the best product overall, so they got busy and we now have Window 7. They have a lion’s share of the market and could have set back for a longer period of time, but choose not. My hat stays off to Microsoft for continued work on keeping as many of their product accessible as possible to us. The Apple corp. does a great job making the Mac blind friendly, but it doesn’t compare to the work that has been done on Windows 7. You can slap Win 7 on a Mac, and open your world giving you a choice of companies to purchase from, but you cannot put Apples OS on a PC. That was foresight. We often sit back and bad mouth the vary product we are stealing, trying to crack, waiting hopefully on *free* Dongles, so we can use it even better, and threatening to basically burn our upgrade letter. Why not just raise some funds, or try to crack a brand we think is doing a better job and leave FS slop alone? I understood perfectly why he reformats, but I still have the opinion it is necessary due to his use of his machine. Get a test bed, crack it, reformat it, test tell you drop, but keep a clean machine with proper software on it and you will experience few, if any issues with its operation. I have 2 machines that are over 4 years, and they have never been reformatted at all, and still run as well as they did out of the box almost due to proper care.
I have enjoyed being devils avocet in this debate. I think you guys are some smart people, and I hope some of you will get a proper education in your craft and use it to better the products for our blind community. Peace.
well said last poster, only to whom who have at least 1000$ to 1500$ to play with. but guess what? not everyone as fortunate as you, who living in a country where you got feed by the government pretty much from food to technology. there're people hardly able to afford 100$ to 150$ in their life, and guess what, this people have no choice but got to depend on the internet connection or other free screen reader to keep their dream alife.
and guess what? unfortunately, those screen reader might do even better than your beloved FS for a change. hows that sound to you? got your dream rulend? i'm so so sorry.
Just to let you know, seven was developed by the people who, at microsoft, hated vista.
Consider this issue I have with fs.
In the past, fs had floppies to activate jaws.
This enables for writes along with reads.
Thus when a person remove an activation, one retains that activation and can reactivate it on another computer. Smart idea.
All of a sudden, they turn to this fsactivate crap. They wanted to follow the tech trend and go with the cd activation, online, etc.
While this is very convenient, it is also crippling. One can not simply retain their activation once removed. This is totally understood for cds can not be written to once closed.
Yet, why do fs not implement flash drives for the replacement of floppies? They freaken charge $1100 for a pro version of jaws, $900 for an os restrictive version, and $300 for the SMA.
With due respect, I'm certain they can negotiate to order 50 ms flash drives at pennies on the dollar and send it along with the jaws cd. This way, one can retain their counts and not have to keep crawling back begging for them to reset their codes due to oh I don't know, hds crashing, viruses deleting files from the os preventing rebooting back in to it, forgetting to remove when reformating, on and on. These reasons are valid and should not be lashed and chained by such restrictive measures as denying requests. They implemented this measure, for we certainly didn't ask for it. If they feared pirating, thousands of installations on thousands of computers, why not then return to what worked. The concept of the floppies with a modern twist.
While there are fairly compotent computer users who happens to be blind, there are many who are not and can not be expected to take half as good of care on their computers as you or I. In fact, most of the sighted community believes that merely keeping their virus software up-to-date keeps them safe. They fail to understand that one needs to "scan" the computers to get the job done. Not to mention that
many blind users only use their computers to go on the zone, chat, and don't take the time to learn beyond what they know. So when their computer goes down and they happen to have 0 activations left, they have to wait for an ok and resetting of the codes to get back to what they do best, e-gossip.
To skpoet711,
I mentioned this in my post, they do have a dongle available, but are seriously touchy as to who gets it and why. I've got one, but I didn't have it while I was in school. The post that explains my views on the subject was posted: yesterday 19:53:22.
Okay, I'm still way off here as I'm apparently not as computer savvy as the rest here. Let me just say, and forgive me but I've had a bad, there are people who like jaws and use it a lot and others won't. I do wish that FS would get some competition out there from another company that makes basically the same thing that jaws can do cause then the prices would be driven down cause people would migrate to the cheaper version. Currently, FS has the market on this type of full program and thus, they can charge what they feel like and damn are they expensive and no payment plans as much as I email them weekly. As for the government paying for things like this, I think it's a good idea and I wish the U.S. would do something like this or at least offer at a reduced price. Personally, I feel that there is no company out there, no matter what thing we're talking about, that everyone will agree with. There's always going to be something with something and there will always be someone to complain about. In that case, email the company a lot, switch to something else, or shut up. If you sit by and complain then you aren't doing anything to help change the situation. As for this win-eyes and system access that are out there, I'm just beginning to experiment with them, so I can't comment on them yet. I am one who grew up with the old Apple computers and never used jaws until I was through high school and at the time, this was the only thing available to use. I personally haven't had many problems with it in terms of browsing the web, reading or writing documents, email and other things like that. Then again, I'm not reformating my computer, messing up my operating system which is windows XP and reinstalling stuff all tyhe time which can also mess up your security program. If you want to use your screen reader on more than one computer, tell the company before you buy it and they should understand that people have both work and home computers. I use jaws 9 and haven't had any problems with, but just stupid msn browser itself from MS.
As for the one that complained about the government paying for things, what would you do if you lost your job and couldn't pay for meds or food anymore. Well, you go to the government or a food shelf and there isn't any shame in that. If you're to proud to do that, well then live on the streets and starve! In fact, whatever happened to common writing skills. Doesn't anyone know how to make sentences or spell anymore?
Damn! I better go now. Sorry, but I had a bad list of blood results from the clinic this morning. Anyway, everyone else have a good day.
And to the one from Hungry, cool, nice to meet you. I don't think I've met anyone from that area yet.
ok i have to say i have ben testing windows 7 along with other products and i had the same problem with the meror display driver and even with the final release of windows 7 and jaws i am still having this problem and i have talked to fs about this with no problen. and now sense i have had problems with the locking code changing now they are talking about giving me a dongle i think their company is shit
To spike
I meant in my post that fs ship their jaws with the dongles, instead of the cd. While it may be out, it is the exception, not the norm. Why?
There are means to cause the software not to function properly when the dongle is absent. If they fear unlimited installs, they should implement that code.
the idea of having a flesh drive authorisation as part of the package is great. no need to worry about bugging FS of authorisation and stuff. it perhaps would happen, when they eventually get to jaws15.0, who may be out in 2015, or sooner. considering how eagle they want to make extra money whenever they can.
for those who want to try jaws11 and window7, make sure you have plenty of authorisation key before doing the upgrate. apparently, whenever you choose to switch user on your computer, you need to have new authorisation for jaws. not for all users, but for most users that i come across. and its the common problem that jaws11 have so far. perhaps more to come, who knows, so that they can do some sort of upgrate, and be a money sucker. ha ha.
rofl, I must have been drunk in that response
I meant, fs ships their jaws progs with cd auths instead of a dongle.
I like window Eyes, no authorization bull shit. JAWS is getting bad though, like seriously. Just thinking about it, JAWS never supports the newest and greatest applications anymore, - do you know why? Window eyes is doing that, and you don't have to be tied down to one properity scripting language with JAWS. So seeing that I like Python, I could use that for Window eyes.
Meh. Windows 7 with hal; couldn't be happier. 11.04 (Current version) is a public beta as far as 7 goes but 11.50 (Free upgrade) will have full 7 support.
ok so bottom line. i've done same as Tomi. I've tested, all copies of 7 were legal. In fact battle doosh, if you didn't know, ms event put copies of the beta up on torrents for people to download.
yes, something fucked up with the videos intercept. and I was smart enough to request a dongle with the copy of 10 i got, and have 2 free upgrades remaining. So I have to keep reinstalling jaws, but I hvae heard of no recognition of this issue from FS. But I won't get my blood pressure up over this shit that some of you ignorant cock suckers are blabbing on about, which is why i jsut don't come on here anymroe. Windows 7, while $30 isn't worth it in my opinion, it is what vista should have been, and I am not willing to pay a reduced price for something that should have been 2 3 years ago. I also just purchased myself a macbook, one of the new ones. I'm just not up to put up with the bullshit fs and m$ wants to dish out. and for the good kind hearted folks like Tomi, they're forced to do things if they need to get a certain thing done, e.g. test versions of windows. Just complete bullshit to me. i've lost respect for that company and agree on the humanwware thing. i'm trying to sell my bn 32 classic on ebay and perhaps may have a seller. I'm tired of fucking with computers. I want to use them for once, rather than bitching on here about jaws issues. How many people really use Hal and windows cries anyway? and I've already bitched about sysem access to fail, so there is nothing more I need to say.
dang, it logged me out and i had a good post written.
Ok, it all boils down to this. money
I would hate to see the electric phone and internet bills for fs. oh god that alone
then they gotta pay all those folks who code provide support write training meterials the cleaning service who cleans up the building. for hardware for the hardware they make and the list goes on and on oh and travel expenses recording setups to record the training stuff. the discs that stuff comes on dongals all of that right down to paper pins tape staples all that, little crap adds up. think of it. I was downloading from them at 1.10 mbps that takes some bandwidth then they pay microsoft to be recognized on there stuff. some fees reguarding ms products and so on I started out on window-eyes primarily it was on my first computer. but i did not use office with it and was taught at the school for the blind to use jaws with office and such. So, when i went to college i used a cracked copy of jaws for less than three months, until rehab kicked in and got me jaws seven. I then have used jaws but kept window-eyes on here as a backup or a change of pace. so yeah think people. oh and the tech support people and coders prob make over a hundred bucks an hour, but they have to put up with people like me and when stuff aint working i am a bitch so its worth it. oh and international licensing oh god the list roles on think about this. how do they mail us stuff, where are those dvds and all that coming from? they pay for it. and dont lay half the cost on us. because to manufacture a braille display alone costs a boat load. trust me.
"The only people who need to reformat their computer that regularly are geeks who mess about with files that were not put there to be messed about with. The average computer user isn't going to reformat his computer that often." I take acception to this statement. Yes, the "average" computer user isn't going to reformat that often, but not everyone who has to reformat on a very regular basis is messing with files that shouldn't be messed with. I'm a programmer by trade, (and yes I've told FS this), and I have to reformat on a regular basis. Partly may be my fault (program bugs) but part of it is Windows errors that start arising on a regular basis. IE, files all of a sudden turn up missing, and I don't mess with the Windows OS files...BTW, my Windows and Jaws are legal, I program with perfectly legal IDE's and I have nothing pirated on my system. So, while Tony may have made some mistakes the reformatting issue is still an issue. The locking code has never been the same for me, and that's even when I don't change to newer hardware. BTW, I don't personally hate FS. It is the one I know the best, but I won't say they're perfect. Nothing is...However, my reason for posting is simple...Nothing is black and white, and to make a statement like what's posted above is greatly insulting to someone who is doing nothing illegal and still reformats on a regular basis...Also, the "average" user may not reformat regularly it should be done. Even MS will tellyyou that.
Jaws is becoming more and more pointless. Look at how big the damn program is now, 93 mb. Now compare it to Window Eyes at 54 mb. And now that you have the scripting feature in Window Eyes, Jaws will go underwater and drown. There is no way in Hell that FS is going to make Jaws like Window Eyes because obviously, Jaws uses it's own scripting language. They say that even Window Eyes 6.1 is compatible with Windows 7, where is early builds of Jaws 10 aren't. Do you see the competition? I am getting Window Eyes 7.11 next week, simply because I am not willing to switch over to Jaws because it can be a pain. And not only that, but I'd also like to have more ram available to me and more stability as well. I'm almost 100% sure that Jaws will not exist within the next few years. It's really going downhill and it will die.
And I'd also like to say that the research it feature is totally pointless. You have many web sites that you could look up on your own, including Google. I'm going with Window Eyes all the way because GW Micro can actually come up with something that would benefit its consumers.
And also, Window Eyes has fewer bugs than Jaws.
At post 47, I'd agree with you all the way, but I found there were some things that window eyes did not read, e.g. task bar buttons were just button button button. Perhaps tha was solved since window eyes 7 and windows 7. But perhaps the mouse feature nvda has is a nice feature, hell now mac even has it but no other proprietary screen readers for windows don't have that. The last version of WE I used was 6.0 on xp. We'll just skip over vista and we'll see about 7. it is better than vista but still complex in some aspect. Mac will always win in my book because, it, just works. Most linux distros are the same way with orca.
I like with jaws i can hit b for button. makes my life easier on web pages. saves me time.
And who said it wasn't like that with voiceover and orca?
i'll go off of Farcry88's last post,
I too use Voice Over on my IMac, and it is stable, never crashes, and can actually use VLC for the Mac and OpenOffice 3.1, which Jaws cannot use at all. As for Orca for Linux, I've had limited experience with it, but will be installing Fedora either 9 or 12 x64 on a new machine that I'll be getting for my Oracle DBA class soon. No, Orracle 11Grid doesn't run well at all on Windows, seeing as the main component is Java based and Jaws doesn't like Java, much. If I am not mistaken, Java and Orca are both developed by Sun Microsystems, which are now owned by Oracle Corp. I will also be compiling Speakup into whatever distro I choose if it is not included already. This is just in case I have to do my Oracle stuff on the command line, yes, I will be getting an external synth as well. It will be the TrippleTalk USB/Serial, which does work with Speakup. The only other distro I'd probably use is Ubuntu 10.04 x64 since it is a longterm release.
Spike, just to let you know, compiling speakup isn't a good idea at least not from what I've read on speakups site, but if you find a way to do it, send me that tutorial, because I can't find one. Also, I can't find speech-dispatcher or speechd, both times I try those using apt-get install it returns ane error.
To poast 44....
Ok, So above we have the issue of cost to FS to produce the products we get. This has *some* validity due to the fact that all corperations have overhead costs they have to pay. Where you step over the line is assumeing that {a} There is no wasted money, time, or non productivity that might impact our wallet if we choose fs.and, {b} Corpret greed isn't accounted for in your moddle. You state that programmers and tech support reps probably make about 100 per hour? if If fs pays 100 per hour for tech support I'd think for starters they'd make sure they hired people worth the hundred. Keep in mind though that rarely are tech support reps payed over $20 per hour. possibly $30 or 40 if they are managerial... Programmers I understand could make $100 because many doo per hour. My next point. How much a braille display costs to produce should be totally non related to the price of a screen reader. True, they can caust alot to make, This again comes down to something that probably could be changed alittle.. Lastly, when you order a product from fs, unless they are sending something free or a replacement you are charged for shipping..
Now, I ask you to look at the compotition.
ask your self the following
1. what overhead do they have?
2. What survices do they give to the comunity? such as recording materials for training, customer survice and the like.
3. How do the survices and overhead above compare to your assumed model of fs?
4. Why then, are products from the compotition cheeper?
I somewhat see where your poast was going but It doesn't have complete marot when you actually take the time to break it all down...
non related to above poste.
Many posters are just proveing that point of continueing to use jaws because its what they were taught/what they know and all that. See the connection yet anyone?
To 53, if you just grab it from svn or repos, you don't need to worry about compiling it. Yeah, it's a kernel patch but so what.
While i haven't delved into the windows 7 testing as much as some others on the zon, i have been running the RC as my main and only OS for a few months now and you wouldn't things its an OS in beta. except for those mirror display drivers issues that forces me to reinstall jaws like once a week or so. And now i am realizing its more of a jaws issue that isn't fixed in the actual release of jaws. Given this was an issue that lingered over from 10 i am a little annoyed that freedom scientific keeps updating the product every fall and don't fix issues. Its cool that Window eyes has a scripting thing similiar to jaws now but unfortunately freedom scientific has the lead time and Window Eyes don't support the apps I need yet. But you best believe i will be checking out the competition when it does. I hope FS gets their act together cuz jaws was the leading screen reader for a reason, would be nice if they could get back to it, but as someone says everyone has there good times and bad.
Sorry, I had gotten those confused, I'm only looking for speech-dispatcher which is apparently is in 9.10 so I'll just install alsa, and remove pulseaudio, then roll my own vinux.
To music master91,
How did your Ubuntu 9.10 installation go? Did you face any specific issues that you didn't face when installing Ubuntu 9.04? How is Speech Dispatcher as opposed to Pulse Audio? How is it to run along with Win 7, which is faster?
yeah! ubuntu rocks!
But I'm still looking for a distro which has mp3 support. I don't use Ubuntu because it lacks basic file support - like mp3s and such. i can see why they can't include codex for this, but come on!
Are there any ubuntu distros with mp3 playback?
I know 9.04 didn't work for me, because alsa seems to have a bug where sound comes out choppy. Not sure on 9.10.
To tomi,
There is Mint which is a Ubuntu derivative which has a GNOME version. It comes with mp3 support, flash, dvd playback out of the box. Unsure how accessible the live cd is, but I assume since it is GNOME, it uses Orca as well. Ubuntu Server isn't accessible at all, though it is command line only.
There is also freespire and linspire which is the paid version, but no idea how accessible they are either.
I just tried Ubuntu 9.10, and am not too thrilled with it.
1. Orca delays. There is a delay from when you press alt+tab let's say and get a response from the system. Even if you turn "break speech apart" in orca preferences you still get the delay.
2. From time to time, Espeak will crash and an entire system reboot is needed. I've seen this was already an issue pretty common.
3. speech will stop in the middle of sentenses for a second or 2. More of a sound thing I think...
4. I liked the install. no instructions - you can install within windows which is very nice.
I'm going to try using knoppix now. Downloading the adriane live cd as we speak.
This doesn't really belong here, but we kind of straied off the topic. I'll probably writing more about linux distros sometime soon. I want to see how knoppix works, now that ubuntu let me down.
To Steven, Window Eyes didn't work with a lot of applications in the previous versions such as 6.1 and 5.5 and all that, but with 7.11, you are able to access iTunes and it works much better with skype. I haven't really had any problems with Jaws 11, but I just don't like that it takes up so much memory. It is no doubt that Jaws is a good screen reader, but it's not worth the money because the updates are becoming more and more pointless.
Too many posts here to read though I did see the first one. I'm a firm believer in cracks for blind software, though I'll admit to using an actual legal copy of JFW 4.2 on one of my machines as a backup and my two copies of Hal are legal. In any case, the prices are far to high for me or my family to afford and I'm sure others agree. That's why I'm so glad that free screenreaders like NVDA exist. Still, they can't do everything, and sometimes, I do have to switch over and right now, I'm screwed cause I can't find any online and the legitamate disks that I have all ran out of keys. I honestly can see where they'd suspect you of sharing licenses. I mean, one after another after another? What I don't understand, having never used Windows 7 is, why couldn't you just have Windows do a normal upgrade instead of reinstalling the whole os? I mean, surely, Microsoft can't be that stupid to make you completely reformat your whole machine just to install a minor upgrade can they? Freedom Scientific has been known for their stupidity since I don't knoww when. Some people there are nice, I'm sure, but some just don't know how to do there jobs. I actually have a copy of JFW5 but was never able to authorise it using their internet system. I wonder if it would still work?
Windows 7 isn't the minor upgrade you think it is, hence why they say for best performances do a fresh re install and not an upgrade, its the same thing with apple macs as well.
lol. i wouldn't buy jaws now if you paid me. did gw micro win that stupi law sute that fs decided to throw at them? i hope they did!
i switched to windoweyes in 2007 and i've only used 1 of my 3 SMA's since then. you wouldn't get that with jaws would you. because they are money grabbers who put out a crap product that's got more bugs in it than a house with hygeen problems.
I didn't use 9.10, since I heard so many problems with it. I have 9.04, but am now trying out linux mint7. Orca does not come pre-installed, so you have to go and get it yourself. Overall, it seems ok, I haven't messed with it to much. I have 2 laptops, one with 7, and one with mint on it. I would duel boot, but I don't know how to obtain another product key for my 7 partician were something to happen to it.
that's the thing with wineyes you don't have any issues there at all with stupid keys. also the other thing to note, since 6.0 there's only been 1 paid upgrade of wineyes. so 6.0 6.1 7.0 (SMA) 7.01 7.1 7.11
so really there's been quite a few upgrades since March 2007 which is when i bought the product but nowhere near at the expense that fs would have made you coff out.
I have been using jaws for 12 years. I was taught that at the blind school and never thought I would want anything else until now. I am actually sort of sad lol that I am switching screen readers and right now am trying to figure out which other one I would like. FS tech support sucks big time and I find that my friends on here oron msn are always the ones to help me fix something and can do it faster than freedom ever has. I think the prices are sky high, and honestly the pacmate ONMI is a freaking joke. When I purchased it last month and got it I was so surprised and pissed off at the times it has crashed and the amount of Windows Mobile Applications that still will not work with freedoms little version that is supposedly to be the next big notetaker thing. Well, it is crap and I am sorry but mark my words it will not be long before FS goes straight down and just stops existing.
sorry but it's got to be said, why are people buying this adaptive tech primitive junk anyway! i'm sorry but there's mainstream alternatives now which have wifi and bluetooth capabilities and the braille displays that are out there will work with them, it still seems to me that they are using second rate technology in these devices and charging people for the privelage of using crap basically. i mean even talks can interface with braille displays now so come on people what's the deal! you can use quick office on nokia phones if you have a full version of quick office, you can read and edit documents and the like, granted not all of it is accessible "yet" but it's still way cheaper than the ripoff alternative! there's also msp out there, and now there's apple based devices and there's also the accessibility capable with blackbary. we don't need this crap any more and it's only because of this typical blindness mentality that we still have this crap out there! when we should be focusing on effectively using mainstream technology and "only" adapting it when and where absolutely necessary.
um...wow....that's all I can say....is wow....I downloaded knopix adriane 6.0.1, and it. is. amazing. Orca in the x-session seems to cut off, but I think a quick update of it, and maybe an installation of speech-dispatcher will fix that problem.
jsears1986,
I think your problem is that you whine to much.
I happen to really like my so called joke, the Pac Mate omni.
Are you some what spoild? It sounds like it to me.
For all you whining idiots. I happen to like Freedom Scientific, I'm presently using Magic 11. I'm also learning to use Jaws 11 in demo mode. I have had Magic for years. I started with Magic 8. The only problem I ever had was hardware. I don't care if you don't like my comment.
oh my, look at the intelectual discussion going down the shitter when the last 2 (I think) posters just made a point of bashing those who don't like the products they love but don't either
a. answer arguments or,
b. really support and justify what they speak.
if you stand for it say why, if you don't well, people who don't have done a good job.
Calling the user spoiled though because they have the resources to use other products (which are actually more cost effective doesnt seem justified and could actually be easily reversed.
It could be said that you are the spoiled one, wasteing thousands of dollars on products that do the same as products that caust hundreds.
and as for your wineing comments, judging by how you voiced your views you chose to strike out like a petulant child and wine, not us.
a quick summery: don't load this down with hot air...
if you use those products, more power to you and if you don't same.
lets try to follow the somewhat intelectual format rather than lashing out at others with insults, ok?
What is the matter Striker? Does the truth hurt? Oh, you poor thing!
I am not saying people don't have the right to use other products, I am saying that people on here shouldn't bash out at Freedomscientific.
If some of you who are complaining about the cost of FS's products, oh, by all means go some where else and quit complaining.
Sorry for stepping on toes, but it gets quite old. I could go on another board, but I have just as much right as yu or anyone else.
If you don't like what I post, ignore me. I am sure you know how.
Oh, I am not the childish one. I don't have things handed to me on a silver platter.I work to make a living.
Thanks and have a good day.
ah, I see, true you've got that right, you didn't really offend me at all though.
But judging by you're logic you bitching about us bitching is counterproductive.
As for your definition of childish, many adults have all manner of things served up to them, does this then make them children? if not, your implyed definition of child is flawed.
Piece.
I made my point on this board a while back. My problem with product bashing is that the opinions are out of anger, not sound research, nor product use. Not everyone will have success with a company nor a new product due to the human condition, but bashing a product, then turning around and saying "I don't feel bad about using a crack of that product." or saying "I have this A B or C and it sucks, but I'm still using it." or "there updates are stupid" when you only use a fraction of the programs, or tools capabilities, seem over kill. Smile. We live in a free market world, so if you have tested a product, and varations, or had poor tech support, and it never changes simply post a constructive opinion, but for heavens sake don't say is suck, but I'm using it daily and hope to get a crack, or some free services from that company.
Striker,
You are right of course.
That is wwhat I like about this site. I do like what you had to say.
My problem is if I like some one or companies I deal with, I have a tenitsy to stick up for them.
Everyone has his or her rights to there opinion.
Thanks for your posts.
Piece right back at you!
Friends? I hope.
Sorry about the post before this one. Getting use to a new keyboard.
lol i need a new one. up until a couple years ago i was a staunch jaws user no questions asked. but the SMA's got more and more expensive, the upgrades that i was hoping for never really improved the situation so i looked elsewhere. i sqaw windoweyes, i used a demo of it for a couple of weeks found that i really liked it in terms of it's performance and how good it did the things that i needed it to do and well i bought it. lol straight on the card. so my copy of jaws is just sitting here unused. i won't be going back to it in a hurry because as far as i'm concerned there's no real need to. we runs a lot more stable, it's cheaper to maintain the upgrades, far cheaper than fs has ever been or ever will be because they just want people's money and nothing more or less IMO, and considering that i was using jaws from 1997 because that's what the college i was at was using, of course they were saying that jaws was the only way to go and all that. honestly even some of the employment people i've met say exactly the same thing but i bet half of them don't really know what they're talking about, so yeah that does sort of justify what people were saying about fs when it comes to their marketing. people just don't look. agencies whether it be voc rehab or access to work or any organization that gives out grants, will just go with what is perceived to be the norm, even if there's a cheaper alternative out there which happens to be better. i think that there's so much money wasted, whether it be by individuals or organizations because of how little people look before they buy when it comes to technology of this sort. the mentality is totally crazy. you can buy windoweyes with SMA's, like i have already stated, i've only used 1 since march 2007. if this was jaws, i would have had to spend £300 or probably more, which i find to be unacceptible especially when the issues i was having with jaws, slowdowns, locking up completely on certain sites that i had used successfully in previous versions, so that left me with 2 alternatives. either don't buy the SMA's which means a much more expensive upgrade price later or jump ship. so i jumped ship, haven't looked back since. and i've still got 2 SMA's left.
hey, just to add to all of this, I did get my dongle from FS a week ago - and it works pretty great, were it not for the USB port constantly being used up by the device (generally I have a USB splitter but it creates lower read speds when several devices are plugged into the resulting split)
I have to say, finally they gave me the dongle.
And I thought state agencies allow you to choose the product you want to have and generally don't "force" things on people? Am I wrong?
-Tomi
Its good to sea people stick to there guns around here. So I totally see where you're comeing from. Thanks for not getting emotionally wrapped up in all this.
For real, I also sea your points. While I can't speak for everyone that has bashed jaws I can say that in my case, its been after years of product use, trying to work with FS and seeing things not get done. While I agree that constructive feedback is the best way to go, its often ignored. I can also admit that because I don't own the company I don't have much of a right to complain about the direction they are takeing but as a product user it at least gives me the right to voice my views on a product I use.
Also, I don't think anyone can really use all of jaws's or WE's featuresin their daily life, even if one were to take up this claim i'm sure not everyone can or really does effectively use them because products like these are targeted at a wide range of users. Incorperateing changes and such for all, not just one spasific user group. How ever, When I test a product I make a point of using all of its features I reasnably can use so that I may sea its potential relitive to what its being advertized as.
Views are what make this world turn. State agencies can be gotten to purchase the items, or tech you feel will work best, so you are not stuck with a company. Here is the trick. Say what you need, and why. Write this in an objective form, not what I call a bitch grip. Let's say you want Windows Eyes, state your reasons in that it will give you the support you require in your studies. I do admit money is waisted on products sometimes that do not, or will not work and this is a shamed, but constructive, and calm views are how I believe things get done, and progress is made. So Tony if you are going to college state the products you feel are going to be best for your success, not on an "I want to play with A B or C" but on a concrete why.
I too have products I feel are not par as far as my use goes. I have had bad service, but I find that research brings me to a better product, and if I feel the customer service sucks you best believe it's because I've called the top person I could get access to, or written a letter first. After that I get mad and say "it sucks" and stick my thumb in my mouth. Lol. I don't buy that product anymore, nor do I use it. To many alternitives now.
that's the poit though. there are alternatives now but peple are still not looking at them rather they are just sticking to what they know. even if there is a better produc out there ok money is an issue of course we all kno that but still putting that aside for the moment, there are times when jumping ship like what i have done can prove to be advantagious.
i was very hesitant to move away from jaws but now i have i'm more than glad of it for a number of reasons which are pointed out further back up this thread. i do think that wineyes is a far better product, i think it's way cheaper and not just in the inicial outlay, the deal you get lasts far longer as well than the competition. also you can buy windoweyes over a set period of time which does make it far more affordable for those of us who are on lesser incomes so the company has taken that into account which nobody can deny is a very good step in terms of marketing and consumer consideration. it's why more and more people will go over to wineyes because especially now with the scripting capabilities you're getting ecentially a programme that can do all the things that jaws supposedly can do and for less money and much more flexible payment options if necessary.
so to my mind, gw micro have the better product, they also have a far better business philosophy, ok they're out to make profit the same as any other company but at least they're doing it in a way that gives the paying customer the feeling that they're getting much more bang for their buck.
that's the poit though. there are alternatives now but peple are still not looking at them rather they are just sticking to what they know. even if there is a better produc out there ok money is an issue of course we all kno that but still putting that aside for the moment, there are times when jumping ship like what i have done can prove to be advantagious.
i was very hesitant to move away from jaws but now i have i'm more than glad of it for a number of reasons which are pointed out further back up this thread. i do think that wineyes is a far better product, i think it's way cheaper and not just in the inicial outlay, the deal you get lasts far longer as well than the competition. also you can buy windoweyes over a set period of time which does make it far more affordable for those of us who are on lesser incomes so the company has taken that into account which nobody can deny is a very good step in terms of marketing and consumer consideration. it's why more and more people will go over to wineyes because especially now with the scripting capabilities you're getting ecentially a programme that can do all the things that jaws supposedly can do and for less money and much more flexible payment options if necessary.
so to my mind, gw micro have the better product, they also have a far better business philosophy, ok they're out to make profit the same as any other company but at least they're doing it in a way that gives the paying customer the feeling that they're getting much more bang for their buck.
agreed with the last 2 poasters.
For real, keep in mind though, as I've said, so many people arn't taught to be indipendant so they don't jump ship or work threw there problems. Our problem, no. Something to think about when consitering why some products are "leaders" yes.
If there were more people like foreal and others of that like mind, products would really be pushed to greatness.
Well I can't teach the world to be better consumers, nor do I expect them to be. My demand system is different, so what I expect out of a product may not be the same as others, and that is okay. I don't say that the people that will not look around are lacking either. If they like the product they use, then that product is doing its job. Lets take Jaws for example. I see that some of us paid to much for their copy, but that doesn't make Freedom Scientific a poor company, it just means that person did not shop, and that is fine. Now on the other hand I see people saying that Win Eyes is a better product simply because it is cheaper, allows the customer to pay on time, and scripting is added. This is goodas well as long as GW can continue its business model successfully and not get bankrupted due to bad loans. Now to say the upgrading of a said product is a waist depends on the user of that product. For example, Dell's XPS line was twice as expensive 2 years ago for a computer with even better specs this year, so that is progress and helps the customer, but should I say that Dell is a poor company and the newest models aren't worth buying simply because my model that is 2 years old still handles my needs?
We could debate this subject forever I think. Smile.
Peace.
it all depends on whether the customer feels they are getting the financial value out of it. because with anything you purchase there's always several parts to it. how usable is it, how reliable is it and am I getting good value for money for this product.
well jaws is now what, £800 now? it's in and around that mark isn't it somewhere. the SMA's the last time I bought one which was about 4 years ago now were something like £150 for 2 consecutive upgrades. now fs would make you use them upgrades even if said upgrades were full of bugs. so you shell out £800 and then a year after you're expected to pay as much as 25% of the cost of the product initially to upgrade it again. so where's the value in that compared to what gw micro has to offer.
I'm getting more value for money with win eyes than I've ever had with jaws. I've saved over £300 because I haven't had to shell out for an upgrade yet! if they do a major upgrade now then I'm not going to complain because I haven't had to spend any money on the product in 2 and a half years. even if the SMA was £200 again I'm not going to complain because unless they dramatically change their upgrade policy, I'm not going to have to spend any additional money on the product for at least another 2 and a half years. that's what I call value for money.
they've been doing this sort of thing for quite a few years now from what I understand, it hasn't bankrupted them yet, they are still upgrading their product, they are adding in new features to the product so I can't really see them going down the pan any time soon.
so, the question is, why are so many agencies on both sides of the pond peddling jaws over window eyes, when it's obvious, blatantly obvious which product is cheaper yet offering peg for peg very similar functionality? for the most part I think it comes down to the educational establishments that have drummed jaws into the heads of the students, like myself, so what do we do when we leave said establishment, we go and get the product that we have been taught to use, even if it's not value for money. I certainly fell into that trap, wouldn't listen to anybody concerning win eyes at all. now I have, I wish I had changed over sooner quite honestly. I've had my own copy of jaws since 2001 so I've already paid in upgrades alone the same price of the initial outlay of the product. where's the value in that if I've been forced to jump ship because jaws was causing more problems than it was solving? at least if win eyes went through a rough patch, if you did pay the upgrade fee again, it would last quite a long time and as such it would probably have gone through those rough patches by the time you are expected to pay again. with jaws I just didn't have that confidence. they were just taking your money and I didn't feel that it was going anywhere. not in the long run.
To my mind, what said educational establishments should be doing is educating people as to what is out there rather than peddling a specific product. This is a very significant problem because it allows for companies to have the market leed when they really don't deserve it any more.
oops sorry that alone was meant to be along, dodgy keyboard.
with dell is an absolute different storry. they didn't force customers to buy XPS, and mind you, till today, XPS is still one of the best from dell's range. Dell have all the different line for consumer to choose from. they didn't say, "hey fool, you must buy XPS upfront and vomit up $2000 to me right now". and mind you, i'm using xps right now, and till this day, after 2 and half years, i do think they are the best computer that i come across.
on the other hand, with finance sucker, (FS) is an absolute different storry again. what they do is they keep upgrating their version when its not necessary. put aside all the geek or nurt or expert in programming and stuff, in an ordinary consumer prospective, what is the most major different from version 6, to 6.1 to 6.2? stuff like that, they can easily do an version update like what windows does, have a service pack on top of the existing product, instead of relist a brand new version on top of what it is.
and, if they are that great, why people bother to write new script for jaws? and, who can say, they are the best screen reader ever? perhaps only you for real... if you look at the review, up till now, xps is rated the best... yes, its expendsive, but the value is beyond that. but, look at the beloved jaws, what is the rating, and what the best when come to value wise...
switching screen reader not necessary deal to price, is deal to the product itself. and what GWMicro does is what call clever marketing. if what they doing now will get them bankclub, they would have bankclub years ago.
but still, there's more to it. beside this two marketing, Saratec is definitely the one that coming very strong towards this two leaders. you might say, "hang on, saratec offer free software with SAToGo, they might bankclub soon". but the acture fact, the only way to get either gwmicrow or saratec to be bankclub, is by the fool sucker on sueing these company for nonsense reason.
and, with the share of NVDA, it can only getting better for everyone, and lets hope, the fool sucker will know waht they are doing, and doing it better with more improvement, instead of keep sucking people money by fooling consumers
well the thing with offering the screen reader for free Joanne like you've pointed out, the good thing about that is that no matter where a person is you can use it. now i don't know if it's the full screen reader or whether it's just part of it but the real thing to notehere is that what they're are doing is actually very clever. which is why fs tried to destroy them by forcing them to change their name from freedom box claiming that people wouldn't know the difference. jees you'd have to be acomplete fool to not know the difference between freedom box and freedom scientific. freedom box offers freedom of usage. freedom scientific doesn't lol. sorry but what other way is there to put it. but getting seriously back to the topic at hand, what they've done is very clever. because they've given people the oppertunity to use their product for free simply by going to a specific webpage. once you go to that page then it's fully active and ready to go. what better way is there of marketing your product? now obviously if there wasn't a reason to buy it then people wouldn't so there's got to be an insentive for people to buy the product.
i believe you pay a yearly subscription to the product don't you? i'm not to up on that so i'm only guessing. i think that's the part where gw still wins because like i say i have't had to purchase anything since march 2007. now depending on how much the subscription is, i don't know if it offers value for money in the same way does it? someone who uses the purchased product will have to step in here because i don't really have much knowledge on that subject.
to Lord Voldemort
I've enjoied reading your responses. In many ways you're re afferming what I wrote origionally. Agreed on the value for the price thing as well. Particularly with the scrypting functions now, I knowmany wineyes users that truely feel empowered by there purchaceing choice because GW made it easy for the end user (with a little work) to make the product suit any additional needes in a much less painfull way than jaws. Sure, jaws can scrypt but there isn't nearly the level of support, built in functions or sense of comunity progress to its features in my opinion. On top of this, they lock the customer in a box of there scrypting language. GW made it easy for the comunity to contribute to the products they support with out feeling they go out of there way to doo it.
I agree lord voldemort and striker. Window Eyes is far better in terms of the scripting featuer, which I am starting to learn. I just got my Window Eyes 7.11 update on Tuesday, and I'm very pleased at its performance.
i haven't played with scripts yet, i'm not a scripter but i haven't installed any. i as yet haven't found a need to do that. wineyes still does for me the necessary.
but yes the thing with wineyes scripting is that you can i believe use various mainstream scripting languages so for anybody who is scripting other programmes, wineyes scripting won't be yet another learning curve fr said scripter because they will already know the language. which can only be a good thing.
i'm not entirely in favour of scripting as a whole though and this is just my personal opinion of course, but i think the more you script and patch a programme, the greater the chances of it going wrong there are. too much patching and you got problems, that's at least my opinion. personally i think that a lot of stuff should be made to be user friendly from within a programme itself with the minimal amount of patching and the like. again that's just my opinion, but that's not to take away from gw what they've done ref scripting, far from it. i just think people should be careful with it.
Well, scripting isn't necessarily patching, it's just making more programs accessible. I do see your point, but Window Eys has hardly needed any patching at all.
I kno this is straying dreadfully off topic, but could someone who has used a v11x dolphin product and the latist version of we give me some advantages that windoweyes has? So far, its worked slightly better on 1 website, so i'm not really thinking of changing any time soon.
Going way up toward the top, Window-Eyes 7 has a Virtual View script which from what I hear has more functionality than the Jaws Virtual Viewer.
I personally am not pushing Jaws, or knocking Win Eyes. From the top of this board we were simply talking about product use and how I felt it should be done. I jumped in here to be the devil, and my point was finally agreed on. Many consumers will use what they use, and many will have opinions on a product, but all you can not say people should wake up and learn. If you feel Win Eyes is better then ask for it, but research won't be done by everyone. You can't really blame the educational organizations for peoples unwillingness to investigate. This is the human nature to go with what the leaders, or group says is best. So will buck the trends and go there own way, but Freedom Scientific isn't doing anything any other compay does not do. Let someone start using pats GW created and see if they don't take them to court to make it stop. Smile.
I agree with you mostly except for FS's goofy patents. If they had a patent on something that was legitimate, I'd fully support them. But they tried to patent something that wasn't even theirs to start with. The idea was around for several years prior and they knew it.
yeah all they're doing is trying to destroy the competition in an underhanded way. whether they win lose won or lost the point is it hasn't earned them any browney points.
you are not the only one who uses pirated versions of jaws... it's the only way i can do my vista craptop with out coffing out another 1200 dollars, ontop of the laptop cost already... it's impossible... maybe someday i will go and coff out the money for jaws, like in a year maybe...
If you're a student, you can upgrade to Windows 7 for $30, and that offer only lasts until January 3. This way, you won't have to worry about Pista anymore.